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	<title>Comments on: ANWR&#8217;s back</title>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-470</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting statistic about the bombs and bullets, but I&#039;d like to see it broken down for civilians, non-combatants, women and children, etc..&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;The point is that not a single Iraqi should have been shot, not a single building blown up, in this invasion and occupation.&lt;/i&gt;&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Well, yes. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;so perhaps they have more confidence in themselves than I have in them. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ya think? :-}&lt;br/&gt;&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://ssrdatta.blogspot.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;sahelidatta at hotmail dot com&quot;&gt;Saheli&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting statistic about the bombs and bullets, but I&#8217;d like to see it broken down for civilians, non-combatants, women and children, etc..</p>
<p><i>The point is that not a single Iraqi should have been shot, not a single building blown up, in this invasion and occupation.</i>&#160;</p>
<p>Well, yes. </p>
<p><i>so perhaps they have more confidence in themselves than I have in them. </i></p>
<p>Ya think? :-}<br />&#160;</p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="http://ssrdatta.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow" TITLE="sahelidatta at hotmail dot com">Saheli</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-469</guid>
		<description>About the classified funding -- Iraqi reconstruction is a small part of it. The &quot;intelligence&quot; budget is entirely classified, and is an order of magnitude larger. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I agree, classified funding reduces accountability to the public. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) still audits programs, but if you look at their list of programs susceptible to &quot;waste fraud and abuse,&quot; you will see &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.gao.gov/atext/d05207.txt&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a list&lt;/a&gt;&#160; dominated by the Dept of Defense. As &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-207&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the summary&lt;/a&gt; says, &quot;GAO has reported on inefficiencies and inadequate transparency and accountability across DOD&#039;s major business areas, resulting in billions of dollars of wasted resources.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Classified funding is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt;&#160; one of the factors the GAO identifies as leading to risk of fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement, so perhaps they have more confidence in themselves than I have in them.&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;rhinocrisy.blogspot.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;&quot;&gt;hedgehog&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the classified funding &#8212; Iraqi reconstruction is a small part of it. The &#8220;intelligence&#8221; budget is entirely classified, and is an order of magnitude larger. </p>
<p>I agree, classified funding reduces accountability to the public. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) still audits programs, but if you look at their list of programs susceptible to &#8220;waste fraud and abuse,&#8221; you will see <a HREF="http://www.gao.gov/atext/d05207.txt" REL="nofollow">a list</a>&#160; dominated by the Dept of Defense. As <a HREF="http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/abstract.php?rptno=GAO-05-207" REL="nofollow">the summary</a> says, &#8220;GAO has reported on inefficiencies and inadequate transparency and accountability across DOD&#8217;s major business areas, resulting in billions of dollars of wasted resources.&#8221;</p>
<p>Classified funding is <i>not</i>&#160; one of the factors the GAO identifies as leading to risk of fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement, so perhaps they have more confidence in themselves than I have in them.&#160;</p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="rhinocrisy.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">hedgehog</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-468</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 17:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-468</guid>
		<description>OK, I see that I screwed up in the sentence about the .50-cal cartridges (for some reason at that size they are no longer called bullets). I have no idea whether they pay retail, probably not. I was just trying to give a sense of the least number of rounds that $13 million would buy, as the dollar figure alone sounds low by DoD standards. I was trying to highlight how many little $10 purchases exist solely to maim and destroy. It also shows the rate of fire that the military is engaged in already -- this money is likely for resupply. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So far as the horror of a .50-cal vs. an M-2 or other small arms, there are many testimonials out there. Everyone who fires a .50-cal attests to its ability to blow up amazing amounts of stuff. In the latest Harpers, a soldier is quoted saying that you just have to hit within a meter of your target and the force of the bullet will kill. The flip side of that is that the bullet will kill other people within a meter, as well.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Saurabh: The .50-cal sniper rifle has been used to hit a bull&#039;s eye at 10,000 feet (2 miles), which is comparable to aerial bombardment distances.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don&#039;t know if these guns should be outlawed; that seems like fiddling around the edges. The point is that not a single Iraqi should have been shot, not a single building blown up, in this invasion and occupation. But heck, we saved the caribou.&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;rhinocrisy.blogspot.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;&quot;&gt;hedgehog&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I see that I screwed up in the sentence about the .50-cal cartridges (for some reason at that size they are no longer called bullets). I have no idea whether they pay retail, probably not. I was just trying to give a sense of the least number of rounds that $13 million would buy, as the dollar figure alone sounds low by DoD standards. I was trying to highlight how many little $10 purchases exist solely to maim and destroy. It also shows the rate of fire that the military is engaged in already &#8212; this money is likely for resupply. </p>
<p>So far as the horror of a .50-cal vs. an M-2 or other small arms, there are many testimonials out there. Everyone who fires a .50-cal attests to its ability to blow up amazing amounts of stuff. In the latest Harpers, a soldier is quoted saying that you just have to hit within a meter of your target and the force of the bullet will kill. The flip side of that is that the bullet will kill other people within a meter, as well.</p>
<p>Saurabh: The .50-cal sniper rifle has been used to hit a bull&#8217;s eye at 10,000 feet (2 miles), which is comparable to aerial bombardment distances.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if these guns should be outlawed; that seems like fiddling around the edges. The point is that not a single Iraqi should have been shot, not a single building blown up, in this invasion and occupation. But heck, we saved the caribou.&#160;</p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="rhinocrisy.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">hedgehog</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 20:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-467</guid>
		<description>As to preferring bullets to bombs, it&#039;s an oft-quoted statistic, maybe true, that the AK-47 is the single deadliest invention ever, having produced the highest total body count. At any rate it&#039;s definitely true that small-arms account for the great majority of war casualties. Not to mention that the trauma caused to the soldier who must kill is considerably greater when you can see the results at close proximity.&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://rhinocrisy.blogspot.com/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;rednblack at alum dot mit dot edu&quot;&gt;saurabh&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to preferring bullets to bombs, it&#8217;s an oft-quoted statistic, maybe true, that the AK-47 is the single deadliest invention ever, having produced the highest total body count. At any rate it&#8217;s definitely true that small-arms account for the great majority of war casualties. Not to mention that the trauma caused to the soldier who must kill is considerably greater when you can see the results at close proximity.&#160;</p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="http://rhinocrisy.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="rednblack at alum dot mit dot edu">saurabh</a></p>
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		<title>By: Saheli</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Saheli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 06:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-466</guid>
		<description>Ditto Saurabh.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;$3.5 billion for Iraq, of which &quot;not less than $2,500,000,000 is available only for classified programs.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Do you know if there&#039;s a separate bill for Iraq this year? &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://thomas.loc.gov/home/approp/app05.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I can&#039;t find it&lt;/a&gt;, but my eyes kinda hurt. What the hell do we need to spend classified money on &lt;i&gt;now&lt;/i&gt; ? Is there any functional difference (from an accountability point of view) between a slush fund and classified funding?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;This line includes $13 million for 8.1 million rounds (at retail prices) of .50-caliber cartridges, each one of which can rip the organs out of a human at 5,000 feet.&lt;/i&gt;  So I&#039;ve heard arguments that there&#039;s more to objecting to these kinds of bullets beyond the fact that they kill people, as military bullets are expected to do--i.e. that they unnecessarily tear through intended targets and frequently go on to kill unintended targets many feet away. But do you know of any good cites from detached sources examining this from a technical pov? Because until we prove to people there&#039;s a better alternative that still gets the job done, they&#039;re going to shrug and say, &quot;well, bullets are for killing people.&quot; I mean, I have to say, I prefer bullets to bombs any day. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, I showed this post to a friend who thought that there was some kind of rule against the federal government exerting purchasing power pressure (based on the experience of having been told to pay retail prices while in its employ) &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/channelView.do?pageTypeId=8199&amp;channelPage=%2Fep%2Fchannel%2FgsaOverview.jsp&amp;channelId=-13263&amp;CFID=1230282&amp;CFTOKEN=28662262&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;but that would seem not to be the case,&lt;/a&gt; at least so it seems. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;The continued erosion of the notion of &quot;defense&quot; in &quot;Department of Defense,&quot; most obviously in the Navy&#039;s continued elimination of coastal defense vessels -- from 13 in 2004 to 9 in 2005 to 8 in 2006.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Isn&#039;t coastal defense now seen as the job of the Coast Guard? Though I&#039;m guessing they got screwed too. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;Not a cent for peacekeeping in Darfur, despite support from Condi Rice for $50 million toward a mission.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;GAH. For heaven&#039;s sakes, just give them the change off the top of the Missile Defense.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;A cut of some $2 billion in military payroll, spread among all forces.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;WTF?&lt;/b&gt; &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt; &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://ssrdatta.blogspot.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;sahelidatta at hotmail dot com&quot;&gt;Saheli&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ditto Saurabh.</p>
<p><i>$3.5 billion for Iraq, of which &#8220;not less than $2,500,000,000 is available only for classified programs.&#8221;</i><br />Do you know if there&#8217;s a separate bill for Iraq this year? <a HREF="http://thomas.loc.gov/home/approp/app05.html" REL="nofollow">I can&#8217;t find it</a>, but my eyes kinda hurt. What the hell do we need to spend classified money on <i>now</i> ? Is there any functional difference (from an accountability point of view) between a slush fund and classified funding?</p>
<p><i>This line includes $13 million for 8.1 million rounds (at retail prices) of .50-caliber cartridges, each one of which can rip the organs out of a human at 5,000 feet.</i>  So I&#8217;ve heard arguments that there&#8217;s more to objecting to these kinds of bullets beyond the fact that they kill people, as military bullets are expected to do&#8211;i.e. that they unnecessarily tear through intended targets and frequently go on to kill unintended targets many feet away. But do you know of any good cites from detached sources examining this from a technical pov? Because until we prove to people there&#8217;s a better alternative that still gets the job done, they&#8217;re going to shrug and say, &#8220;well, bullets are for killing people.&#8221; I mean, I have to say, I prefer bullets to bombs any day. </p>
<p>Also, I showed this post to a friend who thought that there was some kind of rule against the federal government exerting purchasing power pressure (based on the experience of having been told to pay retail prices while in its employ) <a HREF="http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/channelView.do?pageTypeId=8199&#038;channelPage=%2Fep%2Fchannel%2FgsaOverview.jsp&#038;channelId=-13263&#038;CFID=1230282&#038;CFTOKEN=28662262" REL="nofollow">but that would seem not to be the case,</a> at least so it seems. <br /><i>The continued erosion of the notion of &#8220;defense&#8221; in &#8220;Department of Defense,&#8221; most obviously in the Navy&#8217;s continued elimination of coastal defense vessels &#8212; from 13 in 2004 to 9 in 2005 to 8 in 2006.</i><br />Isn&#8217;t coastal defense now seen as the job of the Coast Guard? Though I&#8217;m guessing they got screwed too. <br /><i>Not a cent for peacekeeping in Darfur, despite support from Condi Rice for $50 million toward a mission.</i><br />GAH. For heaven&#8217;s sakes, just give them the change off the top of the Missile Defense.<br /><i>A cut of some $2 billion in military payroll, spread among all forces.</i></p>
<p><i><b>WTF?</b> </i></p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="http://ssrdatta.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow" TITLE="sahelidatta at hotmail dot com">Saheli</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://rhinocrisy.org/2005/12/anwrs-back/comment-page-1/#comment-465</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Dec 2005 19:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rhinocrisy.org/?p=529#comment-465</guid>
		<description>Ugh. I can&#039;t believe we&#039;re throwing away $7.6 billion on Missile Defense. The amount of stuff we could accomplish with $7.6 billion is astounding. Argh. Argh.&#160;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;Posted by&lt;a&gt;&lt;b&gt; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://rhinocrisy.blogspot.com/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; TITLE=&quot;rednblack at alum dot mit dot edu&quot;&gt;saurabh&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh. I can&#8217;t believe we&#8217;re throwing away $7.6 billion on Missile Defense. The amount of stuff we could accomplish with $7.6 billion is astounding. Argh. Argh.&#160;</p>
<p><a></a><a></a>Posted by<a><b> </b></a><a HREF="http://rhinocrisy.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="rednblack at alum dot mit dot edu">saurabh</a></p>
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